Deputy head of Rosoboronexport Igor Sevastyanov / Photo: www.roe.ru
In an interview with RNS, Deputy Head of Rosoboronexport Igor Sevastyanov assessed the prospects for deliveries of Russian weapons to NATO countries, spoke about contacts with European partners under sanctions, and described Russian developments in the field of combating terrorism, from urban monitoring systems to weapons for special forces.
- Rosoboronexport traditionally participates in Eurosatory exhibitions. What caused the interest, if the probability of Russian arms supplies to NATO countries is small?
Eurosatory is a land-based Le Bourget, where dozens of delegations from all regions of the world come. Therefore, as the only state-owned special exporter, we cannot miss events of this magnitude. We have planned negotiations both with European partners and with delegations from other regions. Of course, today the prospects for the supply of Russian equipment to NATO countries are vague, although we have positive experience, for example, with Greece and the Czech Republic. In the case of Eurosatory, it is important for us to maintain contact with European manufacturers in the face of sanctions. But the most important thing, of course, is a demonstration of the capabilities of the Russian military-industrial complex for potential customers.
- Did the organizers of the exhibition have any problems with Rosoboronexport in connection with the sanctions? Were there any demands from their side to reduce the exposure, the number of participants or reduce the representation?
No, there were no such requirements from the organizers.
- Chapter Federal Service on military-technical cooperation previously reported that in 2016 the volume of Russian arms exports could reach $14 billion. What share will fall on Rosoboronexport? What are the company's targets for 2016?
The plan for this year is comparable to the indicators of recent years. It is carried out according to the schedule. The intensity of contracting remains at a high level, there is a small but stable growth in export volumes. The current situation is connected primarily with the fact that a certain saturation has occurred in a number of segments of the world arms market. For example, this applies to military transport helicopters. Some countries have generally completed major rearmament programs. The international economic crisis and the workload of the enterprises of the Russian military-industrial complex in connection with the implementation of a large-scale program for the rearmament of the domestic army and navy also affect.
- What is the share of ground armaments in the total order portfolio of Rosoboronexport? What weapons and military equipment are we talking about?
The volume of the portfolio of orders for equipment of the ground forces exceeds $ 8.4 billion. We are talking about a large number of different samples. These are armored vehicles, artillery and missile systems, melee weapons, engineering equipment, ammunition, communications and electronic warfare equipment, simulators, and so on.
- What means of anti-terror will be presented in Paris?
We will definitely present in Paris our new project"Integrated Security Systems", which combines all the necessary technical means, weapons and equipment to combat terrorism and crime. Thanks to this project, we plan to intensify military-technical cooperation with foreign law enforcement agencies and special services. In many countries, the budget allocated to these structures is comparable to the cost of the armed forces. The project "Integrated Security Systems" combines all possible solutions for combating terrorism offered by Russian enterprises. Depending on the needs, the customer can choose certain components, whether it be a city monitoring system or weapons for special forces.
- Is their share of anti-terror funds growing in total volume export?
If we talk exclusively about weapons and equipment for equipping special forces, then their share in the total export volume is insignificant due to the fact that the volume of purchases of such products is small. Sometimes we are talking about piece samples. But, despite this, we attach great importance to the promotion of these products. It is in demand and is in steady demand.
- Will Rosoboronexport present air defense systems at the exhibition in Paris? What share do they occupy in the total Russian arms export? Is the demand for Russian funds air defense?
The portfolio of orders for Russian air defense systems exceeds $9.5 billion. Russia is the leader in this segment, so demand remains at a very high level. In Paris, we will certainly represent various complexes, including anti-aircraft systems Buk-M2E, Tor-M2E, Pantsir-S1, Igla-S. The demand for Russian air defense systems is stable, in addition to the listed systems, I would also note the S-400 and Antey-2500 anti-aircraft missile systems, the new Verba portable anti-aircraft missile system, radar stations"Casta", "Accordion", "Sky", "Opponent", "Istra".
- In which countries can anti-aircraft missile and gun systems "Pantsir-S" be delivered? Has Brazil refused to buy them?
First of all, these are the countries of the Middle East and North Africa, the states of the Asia-Pacific region, Latin America and Sub-Saharan Africa. As for the issue of supplying Pantsir-S1 complexes to Brazil, our partners have not refused to purchase them. Negotiations are ongoing.
- Will Russian small arms be presented in Paris? What companies represent it? What are competitive advantages our melee weapons? Does the new generation AK-12 assault rifle have export potential?
Small arms at the exhibition will be presented at the stand of Rosoboronexport and the Kalashnikov Concern. optical sights will show Shvabe. Russian small arms are well known in the world for their efficiency and workmanship. This fully applies to the new AK-12 assault rifle, which has a great export potential. It has the most modern technologies combined with legendary reliability. While the machine is being tested. When the appropriate export permit is issued, we will promote it to the international market. Interest in him is very great.
- Are projects for the licensed production of our small arms abroad being considered? Where can such enterprises appear?
In terms of licensed production, first of all, we are talking about Kalashnikov assault rifles of the “hundredth” series. In particular, a project to create a joint venture in India is being discussed. Negotiations are also underway on this topic with other countries, but for the time being I would refrain from making additional comments.
- Is there a demand in the world for Russian armored vehicles? What combat vehicles are in demand?
There is a steady demand for T-90S tanks, BMP-3 infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers of the BTR-80 family, Tiger armored vehicles, KamAZ and Ural vehicles. Our partners are also showing interest in the T-90MS tanks, the new highly protected Typhoon-K and Typhoon-U vehicles. Considering a large number of in service with many countries previously delivered armored vehicles of the Russian and Soviet-made, an important area of our work is the promotion integrated programs its renovation and modernization. This mainly applies to infantry fighting vehicles BMP-2, as well as T-72 tanks, which still form the backbone of the ground forces of many countries.
- When can the first armored vehicles based on the Armata universal platform be exported?
It is too early to talk about the export prospects of the Armata tank, especially since it is first necessary to satisfy the demand of the most important customer - the Russian Ministry of Defense.
MOSCOW, IA RAMBLER NEWS SERVICE
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From 25 to 28 September at the Nizhny Tagil State Demonstration and Exhibition Center for Armaments and military equipment FKP Nizhny Tagil Institute for Metal Testing (FKP NTIIM) is hosting the IX International Exhibition of Arms, Military Equipment and Ammunition Russia Arms EXPO 2013. Within four days, participants and guests of the exhibition will be able to get acquainted with the latest achievements of the Russian military-industrial complex and advanced world models of military equipment. The unique characteristics of their products are demonstrated by 400 exhibitors from Russia and other countries. We publish an interview with the Deputy CEO- Igor Sevastyanov, head of the Rosoboronexport delegation at the exhibition, taken on the eve of the opening of the salon.
VPK: Igor Olegovich, Rosoboronexport traditionally takes part in all exhibitions held in Nizhny Tagil. What is the peculiarity of this review of military equipment?
– The fact that it is here that the foreign partners of Rosoboronexport and all visitors of the exhibition have a unique opportunity not only to get acquainted in detail with the advanced developments of the Russian defense industry, but also to see military products in action. And this is not just the passage of equipment in parade formation in front of the stands, as at some foreign exhibitions, but, if you like, real maneuvers in front of the public, in conditions as close as possible to combat.
"VPK": And how does Russia Arms EXPO 2013 differ from previous Nizhny Tagil showrooms?
- This time, the actions of military units at the training ground will be carried out using modern means of combat control automation.
First of all, this is the collection of information about a conditional enemy, including with the help of unmanned aerial vehicles. aircraft. Then, setting tasks for the advancement and deployment of equipment in combat positions, preparing the initial data for firing, and, finally, destroying the mock enemy. And this is not just a rehearsed and acted out production, but an almost real battle with the participation of artillery, tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles, aviation. At the same time, participants and guests of the exhibition will not only see the panorama of the battlefield, but also track individual moments of the “battle” in real time. Plasma screens and a multi-channel television complex installed in front of the stands will help the spectators in this. And if the spectacular video sequence is designed for ordinary viewers, then specialists and potential foreign customers of Russian equipment will certainly be interested in increasing the efficiency of combat units, reducing the time for preparing initial data and opening fire by many times. All this will take a matter of minutes. At the request of foreign customers, all Russian samples of military products of the Ground Forces can be equipped with such combat control systems.
"VPK": What would you advise to pay Special attention potential foreign customers of Russian military products?
- On the BMPT tank support combat vehicle. This is a new and very promising product, which is actually a new type of combat vehicles - a fire support vehicle. Foreign military are not yet familiar with its real use on the battlefield and do not know all its capabilities. And here, at the training ground in Nizhny Tagil, she will appear in all her beauty and strength.
Another point of active interest is the T-90MS tank. Keeping everything best qualities its predecessor, the T-90MS, has significantly surpassed the base model in all major performance characteristics and, we hope, will become one of the most sought after in the world. The tank proved to be excellent in terms of high combat effectiveness, exceptional reliability and unpretentiousness in operation. The new combat turret module, increased security and an improved chassis meet modern requirements for tanks. The weapons complex and the fire control system make it possible to detect, recognize and destroy targets day and night in any natural and climatic conditions. In terms of its technical equipment, the totality of accuracy and time indicators of the processes of reconnaissance of targets, preparation of shots, firing and the ability to withstand the fire effects of the most modern anti-tank weapons, the T-90MS tank surpasses foreign analogues.
"VPK": At international exhibitions, everyone wants to see new models of military equipment. Will there be debut shows at Russia Arms EXPO 2013?
- Of course. Moreover, there will be more of them than at many foreign exhibitions. After all, we are not always able to take promising samples abroad for display, but it is easier to do this at home. Take at least a floating tracked carrier (PTS-4). It is intended for crossing artillery systems, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, tractors, vehicles, personnel and various cargoes through water barriers. With a weight of just over 33 tons, the PTS-4 has a high carrying capacity: 12 tons on land and 18 tons on water. Its maximum speed is 60 kilometers per hour on land and 15 afloat. By the way, the amphibious patency is comparable to the patency of the T-80 tank. The car is armored, equipped with an anti-aircraft machine gun with remote control and ammunition for 400 rounds. The new transport amphibian is of great interest to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
"VPK": Now weapons production is associated with innovative processes in design development, but there are still few specific examples. What else will please us with the exhibition in Nizhny Tagil?
- Innovation in weapons is not just a secret, but a very secret area. Therefore, if they talk about it, then only in the most general terms. At Russia Arms EXPO 2013 we will be able to see really unique technologies. This also applies to such samples as the T-90MS tank, and small arms, and artillery systems.
For example, OJSC NPO Pribor, a leading domestic enterprise in the development and production of small-caliber artillery ammunition for automatic cannon weapon systems, will present a wide range of its products, including a 40-mm anti-personnel grenade launcher. It was developed using new principle- the so-called mortar shot with a "flying" cartridge case. This made it possible to almost double the mass of the explosive used and increase the fragmentation effect of the grenade. That is, with a significant reduction in weight, significantly increase the damaging effect. The mass of the grenade launcher, sight and machine is only 32 kilograms, the rate of fire is up to 400 rounds per minute, and the range is up to 2.5 kilometers. Each "clip"-tape contains 20 grenades.
Another innovative example of this enterprise is 30-mm cartridges for automatic guns with shells with plastic leading devices. Such cartridges (with a decrease in their cost) significantly reduce barrel wear.
"VPK": Will the Russian military-industrial complex be able to produce new competitive military equipment?
- Must. Otherwise, as they say, is not given. The heavy legacy of the 90s with outdated machines and backward technologies is fading into the past. Now, production is being modernized in the domestic military-industrial complex, cooperation ties are being actively restored, new enterprises are being created, and the best domestic and foreign machine tools, equipment, and technologies are being purchased. In particular, the state plans to spend 500 billion rubles on the purchase of a modern machine tool fleet until 2020, including the volume of purchases of Russian machine tool products will amount to 150-200 billion. At the same time, 80 percent of new machine tools and equipment will be purchased in the interests of the country's military-industrial complex.
"VPK": Do you already have specific examples?
- Undoubtedly. Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern is building new enterprises at three sites, where large-scale production of fifth-generation air defense equipment will be mastered. I note that according to the American military magazine Defense News in international ranking of the hundred best enterprises - manufacturers of military products in the world, this concern occupies 14th place. And this is just one of many examples.
"VPK": So, it is more profitable to build new plants, and not to re-equip the old ones?
“There is no single recipe here. Sometimes it makes sense to use an already existing industrial site provided with energy, water and other infrastructure, building a new enterprise on it. And then to reconstruct the old production, eventually creating a single new plant. But sometimes it's more cost-effective, faster, and easier to start from scratch.
"VPK": What, in your opinion, is the model for the development of the Russian military-industrial complex?
– It is difficult to answer this question in a nutshell. In my opinion, measures, including state support, aimed at increasing the production potential of enterprises and the competitiveness of their products will help realize the potential of the Russian defense industry. It is necessary to replace obsolete technologies, eliminate excess employment and overpricing by suppliers, stimulate efficient enterprises, education of highly qualified specialists, relocation work force in the latest technological productions and much more. In general, everything that is connected with the innovative model for the development of the industry of the whole country, which Russian President Vladimir Putin constantly talks about.
"VPK": Noting the intensification of competition in the global arms market, we usually mention the growth of offers, prices and quality characteristics military equipment. But there are also hidden mechanisms of this struggle.
- Not only mechanisms, but also resources. One of them is political. But if we are talking about specific mechanisms, then we must remember that in some countries (Russia, China, Ukraine, Belarus and some others) there is a state monopoly on export-import operations related to weapons and military equipment. As a rule, they are carried out by a special state exporter. AT Russian Federation This is Rosoboronexport. But in a number of states, companies producing weapons independently enter the world market, where they function as autonomous entities. economic activity. And not always the state can influence their activities. Remember the recent arms supply scandals involving private firms and intermediaries from England, France and Germany. They sold weapons to countries that fell under international sanctions. And taking into account the fact that states under international embargo are ready to pay a lot of money for military equipment, some manufacturing companies, intermediaries and arms brokers are ready to even violate international prohibitions and sanctions. It is not customary to talk about it out loud, but such unfair competition heats up the market and is to the detriment of the work of law-abiding states and firms.
"VPK": Now, when fulfilling state defense orders, enterprises of the Russian defense industry must switch to supply contracts life cycle supplied military products. To what extent is this algorithm applicable to the system of military-technical cooperation between our country and foreign states?
– In its activities in recent years, Rosoboronexport has been implementing this practice. It means constant support of the entire life cycle of military export products, from the stage of design and construction by order of foreign partners, its further operation and ending with disposal. This also includes post-warranty service, repair, modernization. To do this, on the territory of the customer countries are created service centres that solve these problems. This approach is mutually beneficial for both suppliers and buyers of military products, increases the competitiveness and attractiveness of Russian military equipment in the global arms market.
We will discuss this and many other issues with our foreign partners at the IX International Exhibition of Arms, Military Equipment and Ammunition Russia Arms EXPO 2013.
"VPK": The exhibition grounds of Nizhny Tagil will exhibit not only military equipment, but also defense industry products dual and civilian use.
- In this regard, I would like to note a series of KamAZ military trucks. They were created on the basis of civilian models and accumulated best performance Russian military vehicles, and also acquired additional features - increased thrust-to-weight ratio, increased safety margin of the entire structure, easy steering, reliable brakes and a comfortable cab. All this made it possible to assign to the military KamAZ family the highest category quality.
"VPK": The machines of the Kama Automobile Plant have adequately proved themselves in the Afghan war and local conflicts of recent years.
- Yes, in real combat conditions they showed high cross-country ability, reliability, endurance and unpretentiousness. Now KamAZ trucks are used for mounting weapons and military equipment, towing trailed artillery systems, special and transport trailers, as well as for transporting troops and military cargo on roads of all categories, difficult and rough terrain.
"VPK": What is the export potential of these machines?
- The excellent qualities of KamAZ were appreciated by foreign buyers. In 2004-2011 alone, more than a thousand of these vehicles were sold to Qatar, Bahrain, Yemen, and Syria.
Today, OJSC KamAZ continues to increase the pace of production of both military and civilian vehicles. In 2012, the two millionth truck rolled off the assembly line of the enterprise. The export potential of the enterprise is also growing. Thus, in 2007, 13.5 thousand units of various brands of this car were sold abroad, which accounted for 25.5 percent of the total output. Now the possibility of creating an assembly plant for KamAZ trucks in Cuba is being considered, where the production volume is expected to be 500 vehicles per year. Similar projects are being explored by other countries.
"VPK": It remains for us to wish all participants of the IX International Exhibition of Arms, Military Equipment and Ammunition Russia Arms EXPO 2013 successful work, constructive negotiations and promising mutually beneficial contracts.
– And we are waiting for guests, visitors and specialists at the stand of OJSC Rosoboronexport.
— Igor Olegovich, at the previous Eurosatory I managed to talk with the president of the exhibition, and Patrick Cola de Franck said that he could not imagine this forum without the participation of Russia, however, as well as the global arms and military equipment market in general. Nevertheless, for obvious reasons, Russia is reducing its presence in European military-industrial forums. What are your plans for Eurosatory 2016 in Paris?
— The sanctions imposed on our country, of course, affected the military-technical cooperation with European partners. However, this is not a reason to slam the door loudly and close completely.
The Eurosatory exhibition is one of the largest and most authoritative international land-related venues, and here we not only hold meetings with European companies, but also present Russian products for delegations from other regions of the world. However, the scale of participation may vary.
It's no secret that our main partners are not located in Europe, so we certainly focus on those exhibitions that take place in our key regions.
Rosoboronexport Deputy General Director Igor Sevastyanov (right) and Vikramaditya crew commander Commodore Suraj Barry at the handover ceremony of the Vikramaditya aircraft carrier to India, 2013
Sergei Mamontov/RIA Novosti— Russian manufacturers actively cooperated with Safran and Thales, how are things in "communication" with these and other French companies? Are there prospects for the restoration of military-technical cooperation with France and other EU countries?
- No new agreements are being signed, however, we continue to work on a number of contracts that were concluded before the announcement of sanctions. Therefore, during the exhibition, of course, current working issues will be discussed.
Military-technical cooperation with French and other European partners has steadily expanded in recent years. Rather ambitious promising projects were discussed, including in the interests of third countries. Many European companies were aimed at further deepening the scientific, technical and industrial cooperation with Russia.
Today everything is frozen, but we maintain contacts with European manufacturers, who, of course, would like to restore cooperation.
— Given the recent terrorist attacks in Europe, I can’t get around the topic of anti-terror and integrated security, especially since the Euro 2016 football championship is taking place now. What does Russia offer European countries in terms of anti-terror and how are our proposals met by European governments? Is there anything they can actually buy?
- We have global solutions, which will improve the safety of cities, critical facilities, for example nuclear power plants and to strengthen control over state borders. We have combined the technical means, IT solutions available in Russia, all types of weapons, equipment and special equipment into the Integrated Security Systems project. We will tell our partners about it at the exhibition in Paris. In a difficult political situation to promote this project to the European market will not be easy, but we will try.
When it comes to the safety of thousands of people, they choose the most effective and proven means. And the systems we offer are successfully implemented
in Russia and, in particular, made it possible to ensure the highest level of security at Olympic Games in Sochi.
— This year, one of the key Russian exhibitors, the world leader in tank building Uravagonzavod, did not come to Eurosatory. Will UVZ products be presented in some form?
— Of course, we will be presenting products at the exhibition, including T-90S and T-90MS tanks, the BMPT tank support combat vehicle, and various engineering equipment. As the only state-owned special exporter, we have all the necessary competencies and resources to effectively promote the entire range of Russian military and dual-use products.
— Are we losing potential customers due to non-participation in a number of exhibitions? After all, while Russia skips the forums, our colleagues, for example, from Ukraine, are engaged in active marketing and poaching our traditional partners, remember, for example, India, which will now make a military transport aircraft with Kyiv?
- If Russian participation in some exhibitions is reduced, this does not mean that our marketing activity is decreasing. Exhibitions are important, but far from the only tool we use.
You cite India as an example, but at all Indian exhibitions, Russia performs very representatively, since for us it is strategic partner. As for comparing our performance with competitors from other countries, first of all, we should pay attention not to loud statements in the press, but to successfully completed projects, specific figures and facts. If we are already talking about India, then they produce Russian fighters Su-30MKI, T-90S tanks, jointly developed Brahmos supersonic missiles and other military products. We are working on the creation of a joint venture for the production of Ka-226T helicopters and are progressively developing a project to create a fifth-generation FGFA fighter. There are prospects for organizing the production of diesel-electric submarines and frigates, and proven solutions are already ready for this.
Which of our competitors can boast of such a scale of cooperation? But at the same time, every year we hear how we lost the Indian market. Generally,
Russia as an arms exporter has been written off many times: either one competitor should oust us, or another. In fact, however, it turned out all wrong,
but who will remember their failed predictions?
- Among the buyers of Russian weapons are mainly the countries of Asia and Africa, and often not the richest. Is it right to say that more developed countries prefer Western weapons, and if so, why is it so?
— It can hardly be argued that India, China or, for example, Brazil, the United Arab Emirates and South Korea have weak economies. If we conditionally leave out the countries that rely, in fact, on a single defense industry, the United States and its closest allies, then in almost all other countries we are actively working to promote Russian military equipment.
I am convinced that the US military would be happy to adopt much of what we offer on international market.
But we do not live in an airless space, where there are no policies and interests of national producers. Everything related to safety is a very sensitive area, and, as practice shows, sometimes the choice is made not on the basis of test results, technical characteristics or cost, but on the basis of political logic.
- Since the Russian military equipment arrived in Syria, it has been repeatedly reported that many countries are interested in our weapons. What types and types of equipment are of the greatest interest and which countries are these?
- First of all, interest in new models of aviation equipment has increased - Su-32 fighter-bombers (export version of Su-34), Su-35 multi-role fighters and Mi-28NE and Ka-52 combat helicopters. Them combat use impressed the military leadership of many countries.
I would also note the launches of Caliber cruise missiles, which were actively discussed in the press and among specialists. For foreign customers, we offer an export version missile system- Club. It is already exported as part of domestic diesel-electric submarines and surface ships. The successful massive use of missiles from this complex not only once again confirms the correctness of the choice of our partners, but also makes other countries, who are striving to seriously increase the combat capabilities of their naval forces, think.
As for specific applications, it is necessary to understand that all the samples I have listed are high-tech and expensive systems, the purchase of which is planned in advance, and the negotiation process, as a rule, takes a lot of time. Therefore, we are talking about the increased interest, which we will try to gradually translate into solid contracts.
The countries of the Middle East and North Africa, the Asia-Pacific region, and Latin America are also showing increased interest.
- Did the recent accident with the Mi-28N helicopter in Homs affect the interest in this rotorcraft? With which countries are negotiations on these helicopters closest to finalization?
- No, it didn't. The successful use of these helicopters by the Russian Aerospace Forces in Syria confirms their combat capabilities for operations in difficult climatic conditions at any time of the day. The Mi-28N/NE fleet in Russia and abroad is growing. Now these helicopters are delivered to the countries of the Middle East and North Africa. We also believe that these machines have good prospects in Latin America. But in fact, we are promoting the Mi-28NE along with the Ka-52 in almost all regions. Pre-contract negotiations are underway with several countries, but I will not name them yet.
- Did the transfer of the Pantsir air defense missile system to Syria somehow affect the demand? They say African countries are lining up - how legitimate is this statement, what are the results of standing in this queue? Is there any dynamics in the contracting of "Shell" by Brazil or is the process still not moving at all?
- The queue for the Pantsir-S1 began to line up long before the VKS operation in Syria. It belongs to the short-range systems, which, perhaps, are the most in demand on the world arms market.
In terms of the combination of characteristics, combat capabilities and cost, you are unlikely to find anything comparable to the "Shell".
Many countries, including African ones, are interested in it, so the dynamics of contracting remains at a high level. Only under export contracts, enterprises are loaded for several years in advance. As far as Brazil is concerned, the relevant pre-contract work is ongoing.
- Does Russia plan to expand arms supplies to Iran in light of the lifting of sanctions? What specific weapons are we talking about?
— We proceed from resolution 2231 of July 2, 2015, which provides for the phased lifting of sanctions.
Restrictions on the supply of conventional weapons to Iran remain until 2020, missile technologies - until 2023.
However, this resolution provides permissive procedure regarding possible supplies of military products that are under sanctions. This means that if the customer requests the supply of combat aircraft, tanks, ships, and so on, then in each case it will be necessary to obtain permission from the UN Security Council. But one must understand that in today's geopolitical conditions this is not an easy task.
- AT recent times there has been a trend to give industrial holdings the right to independent foreign economic activity. What then is the distinction between what individual companies do? Won't all this end with confusion and vacillation in the field of military-technical cooperation, and everyone will be able to conclude contracts and supply products?
“We are talking primarily about after-sales service.
The military-technical cooperation system is changing, evolving in accordance with the requirements of the times, and this is good. But at the same time, Rosoboronexport remains the main think tank and the only state intermediary for the supply of the entire range of military and dual-use products. Our status, competencies and vast experience allow us to offer our customers comprehensive "package" proposals, as, for example, was done in the case of Venezuela, which purchased aviation, ground equipment, and air defense systems. Or take another example, when, as part of an offset agreement for the supply of Su-30MKM fighters to Malaysia, we organized the launch of the first Malaysian cosmonaut to the ISS. There are many such unique projects.
The same thing happens in negotiations - for example, we can immediately tell the Minister of Defense about submarines, and about "Shell", and about Kalashnikov assault rifles, and about combat helicopters.
About 50 of our representative offices are located around the world, and for our partners they act as a "one stop shop".
Experts remember very well, as you said, the “confusion and vacillation” that took place in the 1990s, when Russian enterprises and special exporters competed with each other, there was no unified marketing policy to promote the entire range of military products. Just speaking united front, we were able to radically increase the total volume of arms exports and expand the geography of deliveries.
When today they try to squeeze us out of both new and traditional markets, it is necessary to act even more unitedly.
— Is Russia campaigning at Eurosatory in favor of the domestic military-technical forums Army-2016 and Russia Arms Expo 2017?
— At all international exhibitions, we always tell our partners about Russian defense showrooms and invite them to visit. This is a great opportunity to show dozens of full-scale samples to the customer. We will never export so much equipment to foreign sites. Therefore, in Paris we will also invite to Russia. In particular, visitors will be able to learn about Army-2016 at a separate counter.
Summer. It's hot in the village of Golubitskaya. The air is filled with the smell of barbecue and rotting algae. There is pandemonium on the beach: someone is splashing in the waters of the shallow Sea of \u200b\u200bAzov, someone did not spare 500 rubles to visit a local attraction - the “real” Amazonka water park. Sixteen slides, music, squealing children - who gave this joy to the seaside village in the Krasnodar Territory?
Allow me to introduce: Federal State Unitary Enterprise Rosoboronexport. The enterprise was established at the end of 2002 as a state intermediary for the export/import of military products. In theory, this is a marketing agency. In fact, over the past five years, the interests of Rosoboronexport have manifested themselves in dozens of different industries and areas of activity. Companies, one way or another controlled by the state intermediary, build residential buildings and office centers, melt metal, provide customs and warehouse services, trade in computers, produce cars. It would seem that what is the relation to defense complex has a Moscow OOO "Magaltek" (production of forged wheels for cars and motorcycles)? Meanwhile, Rosoboronexport, through CJSC NPC Restructuring and New Programs, participates in the authorized capital of this company as well.
So in the construction of the Amazon water park, a defense structure, the Southern Industrial Company Oboronprom, played a certain role. “We provide complete freedom to our subsidiaries, including grandchildren,” says Sergey Chemezov, general director of FSUE Rosoboronexport, to a Forbes correspondent. - Any business is not forbidden, our companies have the opportunity to work in almost all areas. Naturally, with a full report on their financial condition ... "
How did a marketing agency turn into an industrial empire?
In May of this year, the Center for Current Politics (CPC, a Russian independent research organization) published a study: seven large "influence groups" control a significant part of the Russian economy. The new Russian "chaebols" are Gazprom, Rosneft, Russian Railways, the groups of Oleg Deripaska and Roman Abramovich, the shareholders of Rossiya Bank and, of course, Rosoboronexport. In fact, this list is an analogue of the “seven-bankers”, oligarchic structures ten years ago. But there are two significant differences. First, the new “seven bankers” are not completely independent. “FIGs of the 1990s were more horizontal structures,” says Dmitry Abzalov, an expert at the CPC. “They had independent resource support. For any project, to one degree or another, it was possible to get a lobbying resource at different levels. Support is key today. federal center. First of all, the personal support of the President of the Russian Federation.”
The head of Rosoboronexport has such support. In the 1980s, Sergey Chemezov, an officer of the first main department of the KGB, headed the representative office of the Luch experimental industrial association in Dresden. Vladimir Putin worked in the same city. The officers lived in one apartment building families were friends. This connection was not interrupted even after the friends returned to their homeland.
In 1989, Chemezov became deputy general director of the Sovintersport organization, a monopolist in importing sports equipment and equipment from Western manufacturers into the USSR. Liberalization foreign economic activity soon undermined the well-being of Sovintersport: the staff was reduced by four times, the company was interrupted by the provision of consultations and intermediary services related to foreign economic activity. Years passed, but Chemezov was still sitting in his office on the second floor of the mansion near the Arbatskaya metro station in Moscow.
“Putin (then an official of the mayor's office of St. Petersburg.-Forbes) came several times. I consulted with Sergei Viktorovich, resolved issues on some projects. I even went to have lunch at a diner around the corner,” recalls the chief expert of Sovintersport, Vladimir Abramov. In 1996, having established himself in the Administration of the President, Putin took his old friend to him. Since that time, the rapid career growth of Sergei Chemezov began, which eventually secured him the post of head of Rosoboronexport. Friendship grew into cooperation. Now, according to Forbes sources, Chemezov comes every week to the head of state at the Novoogarevo residence and receives an hour-long audience - officers discuss issues of defense exports and the development of Rosoboronexport.
But the head of Rosoboronexport does not forget old friends. The sign with the inscription "Sergey Chemezov" still hangs at the door of the office on the second floor of the Sovintersport mansion. Only now it has been added - “Chairman board of trustees Fund "Sport".
Among the founders of the fund (its full name is the All-Russian Fund for the Development of Physical Culture and Sports) are Sovintersport and the Russian Olympic Committee. President of the Foundation - Viktor Galaev, former boss Chemezov on "Sovintersport". The charitable organization, in particular, finances sports competitions.
For example, last year the foundation held the Russian championship among disabled football players in Pitsunda (Abkhazia).
The fund plans to earn money for such events and for its own activities through development projects (in particular, it builds residential complexes in the north of Moscow and in Mytishchi). The project includes the construction of Info-City, 3 million sq. m of office and residential premises on the outskirts of Zelenograd. In the late 1980s, the construction of Zelenograd-2, a technology park for the development and production of modern electronic components, was already underway here. For obvious reasons, the construction was frozen, and now Info-City is largely continuing that undertaking: it will house technoparks, training centers for high-tech industries, and offices of venture companies. The project is led by Lev Zotov, Vice President of the Sport Foundation and at the same time Chairman of the Board of Directors of Oboronpromstroy (a subsidiary of Rosoboronexport). Specific construction parameters will be approved in December this year.
According to Zotov, Oboronpromstroy will take over a significant part of the concerns for the creation of Info-City. A cursory acquaintance with the project shows that private investors and contractors will get their piece in this pie. This is the second fundamental difference between the current state oligarchs and their predecessors from the 1990s - many of the current "groups of influence" have a two-level structure.
“There is a main base, a core, strategic assets. The rest is a chaotic, poorly controlled but loyal environment, says Abzalov of the Center for Current Politics. - The Group is always acquiring businesses, either related or developing in parallel. They have their own groups, their own spheres of influence - it's practically a network organization. In other words: trusted representatives of the head of state implement strategic projects in the economy (in the case of Rosoboronexport, the sale of weapons abroad or the withdrawal of AvtoVAZ from the crisis). And dozens of Chemezov's trusted representatives, for example, using the support of the "head structure", each diligently cultivate their own field. In what industry? Irrelevant.
Most often, the expansion of the sphere of activity of the “influence group” occurs at the initiative of a person from outside: entrepreneurs different levels come to the group with an idea or a request for help.
August 2007 International Aviation and Space Salon in Zhukovsky near Moscow. At the far end of the runway, among helicopters, business jets and giant airliners, there is a modest exposition of the AT-Spetstechnologiya company: a KamAZ-based fuel tanker, bizarrely shaped kerosene tanks. The management of the company, present at the stand, refuses to give interviews. It's a pity. The head of AT-Spetstechnologiya, Gennady Mulin, is one of those whose projects make it possible to expand the scope of Rosoboronexport's presence in the Russian economy.
Mulin and his older brother Sergei in the 1990s, through NPO Aviatechnology, controlled factories in Stupino near Moscow and the city of Kulebaki Nizhny Novgorod region- manufacturers of metals and alloys for the aviation industry. However, since 2000, the group began to have problems. The audit found in the "Stupino Metallurgical Company" fraud with metals from the reserves of the Federal Reserve. A criminal case was initiated against Sergei Mulin, the businessman fled abroad. Then the Stupino enterprise became a target for raiders, the Mulins retained only 20% in the company. Even later, the partners stole the Kulebak plant from the brothers; after a series of resales, the enterprise ended up in the hands of one of the top managers of the Severstal-auto group, Viktor Klochai. The $200 million business collapsed.
Now Gennady Mulin is back on horseback - he managed to find the "right partner" and offer him profitable business. In December 2005, a joint venture between NPO Aviatechnology and Rosoboronexport, the above-mentioned AT-Spectekhnologiya LLC, was registered. Partners received 50% each, Gennady Mulin headed the company. AT founding documents the sphere of activity of the enterprise is the production and sale of metals. After some time, Gennady Mulin began negotiations with metallurgists from different companies. The essence of these negotiations: "Rosoboronexport" is concerned about the quality of steels and alloys supplied for the production of military equipment; there is an idea to unite suppliers of strategic raw materials into a holding controlled by Rosoboronexport. The curator of this idea on the part of the Federal State Unitary Enterprise is the head of the department for the export of military products for the ground forces of Rosoboronexport, Igor Sevastyanov, a longtime partner and comrade of Sergei Chemezov.
What has been done since then? The new holding was named Russpetsstal. Canadian businessman Alex Schneider bought Volgograd Iron and Steel Works"Red October". The representative of Russpetsstal headed the board of directors of the Stupino Metallurgical Company (the same one where Mulin had 20% left). Lawsuits have been filed challenging the sale of the Kulebaki plant, and its current owner, Viktor Klochay, was summoned for a conversation at Rosoboronexport: sell the plant or exchange it for a share in the capital of the holding (Klochay took time to think). Similar negotiations were held with the leadership of the Mechel and Magnitogorsk groups.
Russpetsstal is still in the process of formation; it is not clear whether Gennady Mulin will be a minority shareholder of the holding or whether he will simply sell his stakes in metallurgical enterprises to Rosoboronexport. It is clear that in the status of a junior partner of the state mediator, Mulin is very comfortable, he has a new planning horizon. AT-Spetstekhnologiya presented an airfield tanker at MAKS for a reason. A year ago, the production of such equipment was a small side business of the Stupino Metallurgical Company. In August 2007, at the initiative of AT-Spectekhnologiya (recall: the joint venture of Mulin and Rosoboronexport), TS-Aero LLC was registered. The scope of activity is the production of equipment for airports and the provision of aircraft refueling services. Let's calculate: there are 62 federal airports in Russia, each one needs from two to ten tankers, the cost of one mobile complex is about $500,000. Not a bad market, considering that there is hardly a serious competitor for a supplier under the flag of Rosoboronexport.
The example of Gennady Mulin is another science. But how to get under the care of Rosoboronexport? The answer is obvious: to find a patron from among the people of the inner circle of Sergei Chemezov. Need an example?
In Tatarstan, about 30,000 AvtoVAZ vehicles are sold annually, which is almost 5% of the all-Russian market for the products of the Volga Automobile Plant. Until 2006, the official distributor of Zhiguli and Lads in Tatarstan, distributing quotas between dealers, was Bulgar-AvtoVAZ. Its activities were controlled by businessman Eldar Zinnurov. And through the network of Sapsan dealerships, Zinnurov sold up to 6,000 VAZ cars a year to consumers.
Now Zinnurov is cut off from AvtoVAZ deliveries. The distributor status was transferred to the new company KAN-Avto-VAZ. Its creator is businessman Nikolai Kolesov. Kolesov himself refused to talk to Forbes. According to Zinnurov, connections at Rosoboronexport helped Kolesov take the business away from Bulgar-AvtoVAZ.
Firstly, the entrepreneur has long been in the cage: he owned small stakes in two military plants. At one of them, Kazan Optical and Mechanical, Kolesov was the chairman of the board of directors, and the head of Rosoboronexport, Sergei Chemezov, was a member of the board.
Secondly, Kolesov was able to interest a member of the “influence group” in this project. Among the founders of KAN-AvtoVAZ are the Kolesov family, structures of Rosoboronexport and a certain Nikolai Shvets. A graduate of the Academy of the General Staff and former deputy head of the Directorate of the Joint Air Defense System of the CIS, Shvets until recently worked as an assistant to Sergei Chemezov - he is called the curator of many industrial projects of Rosoboronexport. Should we be surprised at the success of KAN-AvtoVAZ? The company now sells 700 vehicles a month and distributes quotas for another 1,700 units among dealers. Revenue - about $60 million a year.
Nikolai Kolesov was able to find right person at Rosoboronexport. But what about other businessmen who want to enlist the patronage of the powerful Federal State Unitary Enterprise? The answer to this question will be given to you by the experience of entrepreneur Andrey Dolzhych, co-owner of Natural & Organic Products Inc (NOP) registered in the Virgin Islands.
Doljic talks about himself reluctantly. Until 1991, he was an employee of the USSR State Security Committee, acquired connections in the countries of the Persian Gulf. Then he brought shuttle traders to this region. Met a group of Russian scientists who developed a new type of soil modifiers - peat-based materials that increase fertility sandy soils. Dolzhych was on fire with the idea of planting deserts in the Gulf countries, spending billions of dollars on this. Scientists assured: their soil modifiers reduce the need for water for irrigation, and also prevent soil salinization.
It took five years and about $12 million to certify the technology and materials. Palm trees on the grounds of the royal palace in Bahrain now grow on soil produced by Doljic. The volume of annual deliveries was brought up to $40 million, or 30,000 cubic meters of product. A drop in the billion dollar market, but it's just getting started. Doljic's business is far from transparent. Financial flows and operations are distributed among numerous legal entities grouped around Natural & Organic Products Inc. One of them is Natural and Organic Products LLC. According to the SPARK-Interfax information disclosure system, a stake in this company is owned by Interbusinessgroup LLC, the only founder of which is Stanislav Chemezov, the son of the director of Rosoboronexport.
In November 2005, CJSC Tekhkom ( subsidiary"Rosoboronexport", created for the development innovative projects in the civil sphere) established joint business with Natural & Organic Products Inc. Doljic assures that now his products will be promoted by specialists in dozens of Rosoboronexport offices around the world.
The arms market is highly competitive, and buyers dictate the rules of conduct. The client is usually interested in: what additional benefit to his country can the seller bring if his product is chosen? What new technologies can be obtained as a deal bonus? Doljic hopes that his soils will be a pleasant “additive” to weapons for buyers from hot oil-bearing countries. To meet the growing demand, the second stage of the plant for the production of soil modifiers is being built in the Spas-Demensky district of the Kaluga region. The productivity of the enterprise will reach 1 million tons per year.
As for Stanislav Chemezov, his interests are not limited to peat processing. Interbusiness Group owns a stake in I.A.D. business industry (dual-use IT technologies, the project is supported by Rosoboronexport), Russian Industrial Nanotechnologies and shares in several construction companies. Chemezov Jr. is also on the board of directors of AvtoVAZenergo. This joint venture between the automobile plant and the Itera company was established at the end of last year. It is assumed that AvtoVAZenergo will purchase electricity for the car plant, and in the future will build its own power plant.
So, bit by bit, the Rosoboronexport empire was assembled. The turnover of companies controlled by Sergei Chemezov now exceeds $13 billion. These enterprises employ about 200,000 people. Entire regions fall under the influence of Rosoboronexport. The already mentioned Nikolai Kolesov was appointed governor of the Amur Region on June 1, 2007 (perhaps, the fact that the former mayor of Kazan, Kamil Iskhakov, works as the presidential envoy in the Far Eastern Federal District, played a role in this). Nikolai Shvets, his partner in KAN-AvtoVAZ, went to a distant region as Kolesov's first deputy. To rule automotive market Tatarstan left 22-year-old student Alexander Kolesov, the son of the newly-made governor. And the former deputy general director of Rosoboronexport (and for a short time the head of AvtoVAZ) Vladimir Artyakov has been ruling the Samara region for the second month.
The prospects for the group are very bright. At the initiative of Rosoboronexport, state concerns for the production of electronics and aircraft engines are being formed. The State Duma already has a bill on the creation state corporation « Russian technologies". All the concerns and holdings of Rosoboronexport and the weapons broker itself will come under its control. Sergey Chemezov himself is aiming for the leadership of the megaholding. What is the result? “Industrial Gazprom, revenue of tens of billions of dollars, gigantic political influence. And great opportunities in private business for junior members of the Chemezov group.
However, will the emerging giant become an analogue of the "chaebols" that stretched the economy in due time? South Korea? It is hard to say. You can analyze what has already been done. “AvtoVAZ acted like a madman in Tatarstan. The commodity distribution network for any manufacturer is the holy of holies. And they knocked dealers out of the game, the best that were in the republic,” Eldar Zinnurov is experiencing his defeat in business. Zinnurov, of course, has his own interest - he continues to sue AvtoVAZ and Kolesov's firms for the return of car trade quotas. But here are the statistics: only in the first half of this year, AvtoVAZ sold 15% less products than in the same period of 2006. And this is not a good sign.
What is Rosoboronexport
The basis of the industrial empire under the leadership of Sergey Chemezov today is strategically important corporations with a total turnover of $13 billion
Arms export. In 2006, Rosoboronexport supplied $5.3 billion worth of military equipment abroad, the commission of the state intermediary amounted to about $500 million. Part of this money went to the maintenance of FSUE representative offices abroad, and part to foreign lobbyists who promoted Russian equipment in their countries. The amount of Rosoboronexport's net profit and the purposes for which it is spent is information that is closed to the public.
Automotive. AvtoVAZ, the crown jewel of Rosoboronexport's industrial collection, had sales of $5.6 billion last year. automotive companies in the world. So far, negotiations have not been successful.
Helicopter building. Oboronprom, a subsidiary of the weapons broker, has established control over all Russian enterprises producing helicopters. Their total turnover is about $1.03 billion. Having consolidated the industry, Oboronprom began to restructure it: duplicate production facilities are being eliminated at factories, and the range of manufactured equipment is being optimized.
Metallurgy. So far, Rosoboronexport's ownership in this industry is limited to only two enterprises - the world's largest titanium producer VSMPO-Avisma (sales in 2006 $ 1.05 billion) and the Volgograd metallurgical plant Krasny Oktyabr (sales $ 360 million).
Starting from 2017, Rosoboronexport JSC plans to expand the scope of its foreign economic activity. It is planned to add the export of security equipment of various levels to the import of the entire range of military and dual-use products and services.
At the meeting of the Company's Press Club at JSC TSNIITOCHMASH on September 27, Igor Olegovich Sevastyanov, Deputy General Director of JSC Rosoboronexport, said that this year the right to export civilian and service weapons was obtained, due to which it is planned to increase the portfolio of orders and enter new markets.
As Sevastyanov noted, since 2001 Rosoboronexport has sold $25 billion worth of weapons and military equipment for the ground forces, and today there is an increase in demand in the countries of Southeast and Central Asia, Central and West Africa and Latin America. According to him, due to its characteristics, the "efficiency-cost" criterion, as well as the ability to operate in the most difficult natural and climatic conditions, Russian military equipment is much more attractive than foreign counterparts.
At the same meeting, Yury Aleksandrovich Kaptelkin, Head of the Office of the General Director of JSC Rosoboronexport. He said that in 2017-2018. the image of Rosoboronexport will be repositioned, Joint-stock company begins cooperation in the sale of civilian and service weapons with countries that previously did not have the opportunity to purchase these weapons in Russia. Also, Rosoboronexport will expand the range of exports at the expense of security equipment and anti-terrorism equipment. According to him, today the company has the competence to work in this area with the ministries of the interior, border services, the forces of the national guard and the coast guard of the countries of potential buyers.
In its work, Rosoboronexport focuses on expanding its market presence in the Asia-Pacific region. Military equipment, as well as equipment for protecting state borders, is in demand among foreign countries. With the adoption of amendments to this law, the market for the presence of the company will expand.
The plans for repositioning were prepared due to the fact that there is a massive demand on the international market for samples of Russian military equipment, dual-use equipment, as well as an increased demand for special and civilian weapons, and especially for integrated solutions to security problems, including cybersecurity, state and infrastructure security.
Also at the last Press Club, representatives of Rosoboronexport JSC said that the company would offer potential customers such areas as:
Means of protection of objects of special importance and critical infrastructure;
Ammunition disposal, since in Russia there are ready-made excellent, proven to be excellent in work, ammunition disposal lines);
There are competitive developments in cybersecurity;
Means of ensuring the security and protection of extended perimeters, sections and borders in general (both by land and by water);
Means of combating unmanned aerial vehicles;
To ensure infrastructure security, there are such developments as "Integrated automated system“Safe City”, means of delivery of law enforcement units (including aviation and sea), special vehicles for ensuring public law and order, non-lethal means, special small arms for the police, personal armor protection;
Search and inspection equipment;
Means of detecting explosives and drugs;
Means of work with explosive objects;
Robotic complexes.
The global market is currently interested in acquiring integrated solutions. Just to achieve this task, Rosoboronexport has ready-made products. Moving on to the foreign market, the company plans to focus on this. This will allow the company to gain competitive advantages and reach contract system cooperation with states that have previously shown no interest in Russian weapons.
“In order to develop a new line of activity for the special exporter, a special thematic cluster of enterprises of the Rostec State Corporation that manufacture products for anti-terror has been formed. Developments are being carried out in cooperation with specialists in countering terrorism and crimes from all Russian law enforcement agencies, ”the press release says. “The products offered by Rosoboronexport include a whole arsenal of special tools and systems.” The long borders of countries on land and water require comprehensive protection. And the enterprise already has a set ready-made solutions. This is combat aviation for the protection of borders, this is patrol aircraft and means of communication for foot border patrols. it warships and submarines to protect the borders of states defined by water.
In the structure of deliveries as of 2017, military equipment and aviation account for over 60%, about 40% are complex tools and special equipment to maintain the safety and performance of infrastructure of national importance.
In 2018, completing the rebranding program, Rosoboronexport, together with the State Corporation Rostec, plans to maintain the system of direct arms supplies and expand arms supplies to government agencies. The company plans to strengthen competition in the Asian market by increasing its share of its presence there. The countries of this region have already recorded an increased demand for products supplied by Rosoboronexport. Since the effectiveness of Russian systems, the use of combat aviation and equipment to provide protection.
The enterprise intends to move further into the international market, using for this a proven pattern of the optimal ratio of efficiency and cost of Russian weapons. An additional advantage of Russian weapons is that they can be used in a variety of climatic conditions and remain operational. Melee weapons and small arms are in high demand among foreign countries. At the end of 2017, the company reported that it holds up to 17% of the international arms market. In some regions of the world, this figure reaches 30%. The portfolio of orders at the end of 2017 increased to 45 billion dollars, the supply of weapons is planned for the next 3-4 years with the possibility of increasing the portfolio of current orders. JSC Rosoboronexport, which is part of the Rostec State Corporation, positions itself as a reliable supplier and tester of military equipment, while relying on the fact that latest designs military equipment is already actively used Russian army to protect the frontiers.
The Rostec State Corporation currently includes 11 holdings of the military-industrial complex, 3 civilian holdings are involved in the development of dual-use assets. The development, testing and production of equipment for equipping the army are carried out by Russian specialists. Rosoboronexport does not plan to trade development and production technologies, but only to become a leading player in the international arms market. To do this, the company has all the necessary resources. Namely, the amended law "On Weapons", which simplifies the scheme of cooperation with international organizations for the supply of weapons, investments from the state, developed infrastructure and established ties with permanent partners in the defense sector. In addition, as part of the repositioning of the enterprise, it is planned to expand sponsorship activities and the company's participation in financing investment projects that are of interest to the defense industry.
It should be noted that the press service of JSC Rosoboronexport, represented by the press secretary Vyacheslav Nikolaevich Davidenko, is actively working to promote the company in the Russian and foreign press. Collaboration with funds mass media set up at a very high level. The quality and timeliness, professionalism and attentiveness in working with media editors make it possible to fully cover the positive development of JSC Rosoboronexport.
JSC ROSOBORNEKSPORT is the only one in Russia state organization for export, import of the entire range of products, services and technologies for military and dual use. Part of the Rostec State Corporation. The company was founded on November 4, 2000 and is one of the leaders in the world arms market. The company accounts for more than 85% of exports Russian weapons and military equipment. Rosoboronexport cooperates with more than 700 enterprises and organizations of the Russian military-industrial complex. The geography of Russia's military-technical cooperation is more than 70 countries.
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